• Welcome to The Everton Forum!

    You appear to be browsing The Everton Forum as a guest user. Did you know that if you sign up with an account, you get access to all kinds of additional priviledges, and are then able to join the discussions? You will also be able to tap into the full suite of tools and information that The Everton Forum has to offer.


    Already a member? Login Now!

Director of football role

TylerDurden

Filthy piece of toe-rag
is it working? Has anyone seem an improvement either in the cohesion of our squads under this system or the overall quality?

I think we've had 4 managers on the bounce now that don't know their best XI and seem to struggle with using their squad. Is it simply down to a run of shite managers or are we going to have to admit that this system just doesn't work unless you are Man City or Barcelona?

I miss the days when the manager would pick which players he wanted, vet them himself and put them in the squad. We haven't had a team unit since Moyes left/Martinez's first season. I miss it and I think a lot of it is down to having this pointless middle man.
 

bluerinse

Moderator
It's too early to properly judge Marcel Brands imo.

We'll have a better idea of whether it's working when he's appointed his first manager. I think Silva was joining us long before Brands was.

Steve Walsh was clearly terrible and couldn't do the role.

Also it's not just City or Barcelona, plenty of teams use the model very well.
 

toffee_boy_andy

Love Islander
It's too early to say that the DOF role isn't working IMO. He's only had a couple of transfer windows, and he is yet to appoint a manager of his own choosing/suggestion. We know how hard it is to shift deadwood players who the previous regime have put on monstrously undeserved wages.

I'd question whether he's doing enough behind the scenes to help the manager - talking through tactics, what is and isn't working, and reinforcing the message to the players of them needing to do more. But as that's all behind the scenes, we won't know.
 

TylerDurden

Filthy piece of toe-rag
It's too early to properly judge Marcel Brands imo.

We'll have a better idea of whether it's working when he's appointed his first manager. I think Silva was joining us long before Brands was.

Steve Walsh was clearly terrible and couldn't do the role.

Also it's not just City or Barcelona, plenty of teams use the model very well.
Yeah that's probably fair, although it would've made a lot more sense to have brought Brands in and then had him have some serious input on the incoming manager.

Like who? Can't say it's something I ever hear about aside from the biggest clubs who use it.
 

TylerDurden

Filthy piece of toe-rag
It's too early to say that the DOF role isn't working IMO. He's only had a couple of transfer windows, and he is yet to appoint a manager of his own choosing/suggestion. We know how hard it is to shift deadwood players who the previous regime have put on monstrously undeserved wages.

I'd question whether he's doing enough behind the scenes to help the manager - talking through tactics, what is and isn't working, and reinforcing the message to the players of them needing to do more. But as that's all behind the scenes, we won't know.
So why does Brands get the time he needs but Silva doesn't? Seems mightily unfair to me given that Brands let Silva down hugely in the summer.
 

Mug

TEF Member
The modern game is to consuming for managers to “do it all” so if we got rid of Brands we’d still need somebody to do his job.
 

bluerinse

Moderator
Yeah that's probably fair, although it would've made a lot more sense to have brought Brands in and then had him have some serious input on the incoming manager.

Like who? Can't say it's something I ever hear about aside from the biggest clubs who use it.
I haven't got a list to hand, but I think it's very common, we just don't often hear about DofFs.

If we do go down the route of sacking Silva in the next couple of months, it'll be interesting to see Brands earn his corn in terms of finding the right guy, building a relationship and then how we see it take shap on the pitch.
 

toffee_boy_andy

Love Islander
So why does Brands get the time he needs but Silva doesn't? Seems mightily unfair to me given that Brands let Silva down hugely in the summer.
That's what the DOF role is. You're above the manager, and hired on the basis that you can provide stability through periods of changing manager. It's a step in the right direction for me, as we cant keep having managers coming in and wanting to overhaul the squad. Obviously it does depend on getting the right guy. But Brands was scouted and courted for along time before he came in.

We've seen desperation previously with big money on players like Schneiderlin, Bolassie and Walcott, who were never going to have sell-on value close to what we paid. That massively impacts on our ability to keep investing and growing the squad. For all the problems of the last window, at least we can look at it and say he's got a plan. Big money will only be spent on young players, or players who he feels can take us to the next level.
 

TylerDurden

Filthy piece of toe-rag
The modern game is to consuming for managers to “do it all” so if we got rid of Brands we’d still need somebody to do his job.
Really? You think the game has changed so much in the last 5 years that managers simply can't be managers anymore? Why? What's happened to increase their workload so much?
 

TylerDurden

Filthy piece of toe-rag
That's what the DOF role is. You're above the manager, and hired on the basis that you can provide stability through periods of changing manager. It's a step in the right direction for me, as we cant keep having managers coming in and wanting to overhaul the squad. Obviously it does depend on getting the right guy. But Brands was scouted and courted for along time before he came in.

We've seen desperation previously with big money on players like Schneiderlin, Bolassie and Walcott, who were never going to have sell-on value close to what we paid. That massively impacts on our ability to keep investing and growing the squad. For all the problems of the last window, at least we can look at it and say he's got a plan. Big money will only be spent on young players, or players who he feels can take us to the next level.
We've had 2 DOFs now and that seems to be the norm. Where is the stability? I've seen nothing, absolutely nothing to convince me that having a DOF is beneficial.
 

Mug

TEF Member
Really? You think the game has changed so much in the last 5 years that managers simply can't be managers anymore? Why? What's happened to increase their workload so much?
I think even 5 years ago there were people doing the same kind of thing Brands does they just didn’t always have the DoF title.

But as a point yeah I think managers/coaches have more to do now than just 5 years ago, for instance there’s more training and conditioning sessions than just 5 years ago, more analysis and planning meetings, more media work....

The whole industry is far more professional and no one person can be looking to do it all now. Every club will have somebody doing the sort of things Brands does they just aren’t all given the title of DoF, at Liverpool and Arsenal I think they use the title of Sporting director, but their roles and responsibilities will align with Brands position, it’s just how professional football clubs are run now.

I cant understand why it frightens some people.
 

toffee_boy_andy

Love Islander
How can he offer stability when he's shit at his own job though? Why is everyone convinced he is the man? Everyone said the same about Walsh ffs
Walsh had never been DOF anywhere before. Don't compare him to Brands.

Whether he'll do the same here or not, he was clearly very successful at Alkmaar and PSV.
 

TylerDurden

Filthy piece of toe-rag
Walsh had never been DOF anywhere before. Don't compare him to Brands.

Whether he'll do the same here or not, he was clearly very successful at Alkmaar and PSV.
I'm not comparing them, I'm telling you what our fans were saying after Walsh had supposedly won Leicester the league and was going to sign us all sorts of gems.
 

SteveEFC89

TEF Member
How can he offer stability when he's shit at his own job though? Why is everyone convinced he is the man? Everyone said the same about Walsh ffs
Because he has a pretty decent background and so far barring 2 fuck ups he’s managed to show us his plan by his signings? Richarlison & Moise Kean for me are 2 massive signings of intent. He’s managed the daunting task of replacing Baines brilliantly with Digne which was important. Gomes is a classy signing who i’m excited to see playing around better CM’s when they come.

What people need to remember is a lot of his work can’t start until he’s managed to shift off all the shit, of which there was/is loads.

He has no excuse on the centre back front, I expect a big move there in January after what happened in the summer. I maintain we need 2 CB’s, a box-to-box CM and an experienced striker in the January window. By no means has he been perfect but he’s certainly not been shit. He can’t be blamed for the tactics on the pitch.
 

143Blue

TEF Member
Agreed, the jury is out on the DoF role here, whether its Brands,who seems to be a bit of a golden boy, or any other jobs for the boys individual.
 

BraintreeBlue

TEF Member
what are you judging brands on? The first team? Transfers? His remit is far bigger. its an overhaul of the whole club which will probably take years until you see the full effect.

You can judge a coach based on results on the pitch. A DOF not so much. If we got rid of brands who takes that role? Kenwright? Denise Barret-Baxendale?

Marco Silva is currently responsible for the first team. No player is bought without his agreement. Now it isn't a great situation we only have two cb's and that players were brought in late. Nobody will ever really know why that was or who is to blame. We can guess but it would just be that a guess.

Im not worried about brands as he has only just started his role in the grand scheme of things. i would hope our next manager is picked entirely by him. if it isnt its pointless him being there. Silva was never Brands choice he was Moshiri's.
 

pablo_p

TEF Member
I don't know what the DOF role/model entails so I don't know what he does exactly to know of he's failing or not.

From an uneducated point of view, I'd assume the manager implements a style of play and then works with the DOF to suss out what players he needs in what positions and what the criteria is for each role. The DOF then rolls this out across the Ressies/Academies and so on. But that is pure guesswork on my part.

All I know is we've seen some of the best (well most technically gifted) players of the last 15-20 years come to the club in the time he's been here. There's also resolve in transfers we've not seen since Martinez year 1 where we've got our way and not been bullied on fees/sales. Telling PSG to fuck off mid season and landing Kean for £25-27M when the talk was £50M+ with all manner of add ons being examples.

I'd say he's doing good, personally. The only negatives have been Zouma and Zaha. But look at it this way, would you be happy to have spent another £150M on them two? Because I wouldn't. And that's probably what it'd have taken to get them here.

If we get this Brazillian starlet in Jan/next summer as lots of outlets believe; then there's a clear indication of direction. The problem Evertonians will have with it is that it's not immediate.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top